The Linear Canvas
This journal is about the wrongs and rights of the world, as I see them.

The Linear Canvas

Fostex VF-16: Saving Song Data and Other Things I Know About My Multi Track Recorder

August 5th, 2009 . by Alexander Fisher

A reader on my blog contacted me recently. He asked for my help getting his music files from a Fostex VF-16 to a computer, and specifically to the digital audio workstation (DAW) software, Cakewalk Sonar. I have a VF-16 and I use Sonar as well, so I have lots of experience with that configuration. I have owned a VF-16 since about 2000 or so. I bought it at Peeler Music in Toledo, Ohio. I tried several digital multi track recorders before I found this one. I made the right choice, no doubt.

This made me curious about the optical transfer options as well. I’ve never had any need for them, having always used the SCSI port on my recorder. As a result, I had only limited knowledge of the S/PDIF and ADAT features. I started learning about, and experimenting with, the SAVE PGM option using both the ADAT and S/PDIF outputs. I also found a used ADAT interface for my computer. I have very seldom used the LOAD PGM option.

There are two connections for copying the files from the VF-16 using the three protocols, SCSI, ADAT, and S/PDIF. ADAT and S/PDIF share the optical connections on the VF-16. ADAT and SCSI are somewhat antique methods. So if you don’t have one of these devices, your only option might be eBay or a used parts store.

Recording Options

SCSI
This is the fastest and easiest way to move song data from the multi-track to a computer. Unfortunately, it requires hardware that is increasingly hard to find. This might not be an option for that reason. It copies all recorded tracks as fast as the SCSI bus/recorder allows. (See Hardware for Saving Song Files below)

Make sure that you save the files in WAV format. If you save it in FDMS3 format, your computer won’t understand it.

ADAT (optical)
ADAT was a standard developed for an eight track digital tape recorder They were daisy chainable to allow more track capacity. The standard is still used in some digital audio equipment and has also morphed into other standards. It uses a protocol called ADAT Lightpipe to transfer up to eight tracks at once over a standard fiber optic cable with toslink connectors. Although S/PDIF and ADAT share input/output (I/O) ports on the VF-16, and cable type, they are not compatible.

Standalone ADAT recorders originally used VHS tape. I am not sure if they had computer interfaces on them to make the transfer to the computer, other than the optical I/O. As old as most ADAT’s I’ve seen are, it would have to be SCSI, or worse.

When recording the individual tracks in Sonar, each input selection on eight armed tracks have to be selected to the individual assignable inputs from the ADAT interface. I found a used RME DIGI96/8 Pro ADAT PCI card for my computer at Sam Ash Music. My card shows up as “1 and 2 left”, “1and 2 right”, “3 and 4 left”, etc. You just assign each of the inputs to a different track, and arm it to record.

When the recording process starts, the VF-16 inserts a series of pilot tones at the beginning of a track, in this case track 2. It then plays the tracks out in real time to the computer. It then inserts another tone at the end of the track. If you select to record sixteen or twenty-four tracks, another series of tones play indicating track start and then proceeds to play the next eight tracks into the DAW. The VF-16 can output three sets of eight tracks each, for a total of twenty-four tracks. (sixteen real tracks plus eight ghost tracks)

It is very easy using Sonar to cut up the tracks by zooming in on the identical tones between the track sets, cutting all tracks apart at the same place, and then drag them to blank tracks. I did this and was able to line all the tracks up perfectly.

I am not aware of a way to automate the record start and stop in Sonar, or anything else, with the tones.

The pilot tones indicate start and stop positions to the VF-16 when you load and save, but they are useful in editing an ADAT save in Sonar. Thank goodness for that.

S/PDIF (optical)
S/PDIF is a common stereo digital audio protocol used in pro and consumer equipment. It is able to save song data two tracks at a time over common fiber optic with toslink connectors.

This is by far the slowest method, but if your computer only has S/PDIF digital audio inputs and no ADAT interface, it may be your only choice. S/PDIF is a common standard for both optical or coaxial digital interfaces. If you have the proper converter, you can switch between mediums with no loss of quality or function.

The recording process works very much like ADAT, except it takes four times longer. You could just play your tracks out into a DAW (even through a soundcard’s analog outputs) and sort of accomplish the same thing as this option, but using the SAVE PGM S/PDIF option and having the VF-16 add the pilot tones will make this much easier to edit.

Hardware for Saving Song Files

Many VF-16 owners use SCSI drives with removable media like an Iomega Jaz or Zip drive. The Jaz came in a 1 GB version and later a 2 GB version. Either will work just fine. I have two 1 GB Jaz drives. One is on my VF-16 and the other is on my computer using an Adaptec SCSI to USB 2.0 adapter. An internal PCI or PCMCIA (laptop) SCSI card could be substituted for the adapter. The Jaz drives are about ten years old and the adapter is about eight years old.

Blank media is needed for these drives. As old as they are, I’m sure fewer good used disks can be found each day that passes. Jaz disks were produced in less quantity than Zip disks, so they also may be hard to find for that reason. They were more fragile as well. I have several bad Jaz disks. Zip disks were susceptible to the “Click Of Death” syndrome early on, I had one, but later drives were less problematic. I assume the media  can still be acquired from Iomega or eBay. The drives are probably only available on eBay or used computer stores that sell parts. If you have more than one to choose from, look at the serial number or manufacture date. Many improvements were made to Iomega drives in later versions. No sense in getting stuck with a drive that just makes clicking noises and loses all of your data.

The Zip drive came in a SCSI /Parallel version. I have one of these. It held 100 MB. Most any normal sized 16 tracks of song data will take at least 400 MB. The VF-16  will fill each disk and will prompt for a new disk if needed, up to 99 disks. There was a Zip 250 MB SCSI drive too. One Jaz disk is more than big enough. Get a Jaz drive if possible.

You could use the Zip SCSI /Parallel drive on the built in SCSI port on the VF-16 and on a computer parallel port (if you still have one). But I would always recommend finding a SCSI expansion card for your computer. The parallel interface is so slow, 128 kb/sec, that it could take hours to transfer all the files you need.

There are other formats the VF-16 can save to but the interface has to be SCSI. There were some external Olympus MO (Magneto-Optical) drives and a Panasonic DVD-RAM drive that could be used. There was an external Plextor SCSI CD Burner that worked with the VF-16. Compatibility is an issue with many internal and external drives on the VF-16. Many will just not work at all. Some will just work a little. All older Apple computers had SCSI interfaces, so an Apple user could be of some help locating an external SCSI drive.

If you acquire one of these devices, you might still need to do a firmware update to make it work. You just copy the update to a disk and when you hook it up to the VF-16, it will acquire it from there, automatically. It’s real easy. I think the firmware is available from Fostex still and there is a VF-16 group on Yahoo that had it.

Yahoo Fostex VF-16 User Group
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/VF16/

Transfer The Data

If you get that far, all you need to do is push the SETUP button on the VF-16, then select SAVE PGM and just follow the instructions on the VF-16 screen. If you are using a SCSI device, make sure you select to save in WAV format and then connect the drive to your computer. Then you can use the IMPORT command to copy the WAV files into your current DAW project. When using ADAT and S/PDIF, your files should be ready to edit as soon as the save process is finished.

By far, the SCSI option is best. It requires no editing and is so much faster. Good luck on finding any that works. ADAT is a workable alternative. S/PDIF might be more the reality for most anymore.

other stuff…

The Fostex VF-16, for all its good qualities has a restriction on the types of drives it will work with. The list is longer for drives that don’t work. Below are links to two lists that are a good starting point when looking for compatible hardware.

http://www.linearcanvas.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Fostex VF-16 media specs.pdf

http://www.linearcanvas.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Fostex VF-16 HDD list img-327060156.pdf

I have found a few other drives not listed that work with the internal IDE interface, all were ATA-66 devices.

Here’s the manual.

http://www.linearcanvas.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Fostex vf16_owners_manual.pdf

2 Responses to “Fostex VF-16: Saving Song Data and Other Things I Know About My Multi Track Recorder”

  1. comment number 1 by: jtayl711

    Thanks so much for shedding some light on this. I’ve been trying to figure out how to transfer files to my computer from my vf16 forever. I still don’t know if I have all the necessary equipment to do it, but I do own one of these… http://www.cdfx.com/secure/images/5908.pdf

    It has a SCSI2 connection…do you think I can connect that to my vf16 and record the wavs directly to cds and then rip the wavs from the cd onto my computer??

    If not is there a way to get the wavs from the vf16 to my computer without having to get an old jaz drive. Can I use a scsi to usb adapter cable? Any help you can provide would be much appreciated.

    Thank you,

    Jake

  2. comment number 2 by: Alexander Fisher

    As far as the external SCSI and your tower, I think the VF-16 is only capable of working with a few devices, but you may find that if you disconnect every drive except the first one and terminate it, it may work. Especially if the guts to the device are similar or have similar firmware with a compatible device. I doubt if you could get the whole tower to work. I have never hooked up a CD burner to the VF-16 although I know it can be done. I have also never tried to daisy chain more that one device to it’s SCSI bus. I think there is something mentioned in the manual about it not working anyway. The official list only has a Plextor CD burner and a Panasonic DVD RAM burner as compatible. I believe both are very early and slow devices. The Jaz is very fast in comparison to the listed drives and the Zip as well. You may also find them very cheap. I bought a Jaz drive with a brand new disk at a used computer shop for $15 about six months ago. My Jaz SCSI ID is set to 1, but I can’t recall if that is important or not. Some earlier versions of the Fostex firmware lack the compatibility to recognize some drives. You may need to update your firmware to a later version too. You need a Jaz, Zip, etc. to do that too. My Fostex firmware is v3.13. I believe that was the last version released.
    They used to make SCSI to USB adapters. I would guess putting one on the VF-16’s SCSI port could yield a working bus, but whether the VF-16 would recognize the other end of it as storage media, is highly doubtful. I am not sure the VF-16 could power the interface correctly either. A flash drive on the other end obviously would not power it. So unless power comes from the SCSI side, it wouldn’t light up anyway. Plugging it into a computer would scare me. Whether it would see the Fostex as a storage device is as unlikely. The internal Fostex drive is formatted in a proprietary system that Windows or Apple OS would no doubt fail to recognize. And then there’s the worst case where something shorts out and that’s the end of that. A SCSI to USB adapter is handy to get the files into the computer though, if you have a Jaz drive. I have two. Both were made by Adaptec.

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.